Markus Levin on XYO Layer One's decentralized data infrastructure

0:00I'm Ashen Addison from the Crypto Coin Show and today on blockchain interviews we have back with us Marcus Leven, co-founder of XYO here to talk about the DPIN industry decentralized physical infrastructure networks. The launch of the XYO layer 1 network and the dual token model XYO and XL1 and the $3.5 trillion opportunity ahead of us for tokenization and DPIN networks. Marcus,

0:27welcome back to the show.

Thanks for having me again. Yeah, it's great to be Ash.

Likewise, as the viewers have probably seen, we've been following XYO for 7, eight years, one of the leaders in deep pin networks. The industry is starting to catch up and there's a lot of interest. We're seeing the reports that this is a multi- trillion dollar industry in the

0:49making. You guys have been around since before the name was even coined, Deepin. And you've been growing dramatically over 10 million nodes in the network and now with our last video couple months ago the launch of the XYO layer 1 which I'd love to hear how that was going and a little bit more on the network and how you guys are

1:13spearheading DPIN and then we can just dive into the most recent details.

Yeah. Yes, it's great. Yeah, it was a crazy time. You know, whoever launched a project knows, you know, it's like months and years in the making and then the last few months before are just absolutely bananas, right? You sleep like 2 to four hours because there's a person in every time zone you need to

1:37talk with and it never ends, you know, and you know, you need to negotiate with exchanges how you can be listed. you need a opinion from a lawyer to say, you know, that your token is good and all the things, you know, like there's really 6,000 pieces as a token and we made it September 16th was the launch day and we on that day we launched the

2:01XY layer one blockchain as well as the XL1 token which is our new token and you know and since then you think the busyiness would die down a little bit. It has like I get a little bit more sleep but it's it's quite stressful because now you know the real work is there right we are building improvements and next stages for the layer one which is in

2:29mainet already and we have a partnership already you know the XL1 token you know we expand that ecosystem and so on so it's it's still a busy time

definitely and I saw that major partnership with the Korean company Piggy cell which seemed to be huge. I'd love to dive into that later. I would love to start with a little bit more of painting the picture on DPIN and why

2:53it's so important. I feel like in the last year the machine economy, autonomous vehicles, edge devices connecting, collecting more local information, whether it's sound location, a lot more people are able to connect into these networks and be rewarded for it importantly, which I think is a key piece to touch on. Can you just sort of paint the picture on

3:15how people are realizing that the importance of deep pin networks and the importance of contributing to them and actually earning from it as opposed to the old model where we were the product that whenever we contribute really it's just for our goodwill and we're getting taken advantage of.

Yeah. you know decentralized physical infrastructure networks terms around

3:36since since 22 but you know we are the first one of those when we launched our mainet in 2018 and we one in the data space so we collect real world data valid verified so our blockchain system and then you know connected with web two and web three systems and we started there with proof of location so making location unsoable and unhackable but

3:59today we collect any data be temperature sensory data and offline data, cloud data and so on and so and as you know data is one of the prime components for AI to function right there like data compute and storage and we are basically handling the data side and then but however there are big deepen projects on the compute and storage side you know for example

4:27there's ether you know it's a deepen project they have allow you to use your computer to train AI models for example

and then you know and then there is storage storage systems as well and so deep allows you to use extra underutilized infrastructure you know where you might use a data center maybe only 30% of your time or your computer

4:54you only use for work but not for anything else

and you to use that extra time to earn a return on your assets and that's really exciting I think for people specifically you know which have day-to-day jobs you know and on salaries dependent on their employer right and you live paycheck to paycheck a little bit and

5:18then suddenly you know you have a way to earn a return on an asset right and which then generates more assets because you earn tokens often from these deepens and these tokens can appreciate in value know the XYO's case for example published a case study our top 500 users they made like $14 million together and there are people you know who went on it someone went on

5:43a delayed honeymoon and someone paid off their mortgage and some bought a new car and so on and I met someone in Australia it was really cool I was at a conference talking there and someone waited until I came off the stage hugged me and invited me for lunch it was like a retired truck driver and he was able to retire, you know, because he was

6:03with us since 2019 and cashed out some at the right time and was even able to invest $400,000 into his friends business and so like Deepen just can transform lives and worlds, you know, for the people, you know, to use things you anyways own like to earn money or maybe sometimes you need some to buy some devices you know to

6:29earn some but also then on the other side that's the producer side but on the demand side you know you have under you under served regions you know if for example a village in Africa right you might have no electricity there and because of that you have no water pump and because of that you have no light after dark so no productivity and you're

6:51not connected to the internet and whatever right and with deepin for example you can just build a deepin solar network with solar cells and batteries have a micro grid and it's a real investment and you earn returns on it but also suddenly you can buy a stling terminal and connect that village to the global economy and or there's a da network the pretty cool u the goal

7:17is to bring your Wi-Fi into every village in India through deepen and it's really cool right because it you and I have have are the lucky ones, right? We're crypto nerds today, right? And you know, we are have some success, let's say, compared with others and but there's a lot of un underutilized potential, I think, in the world, you

7:45know, because if you are the son or daughter of a farmer for example, right, and you don't have internet, you don't have electricity, right? It's difficult to come to your max potential. But if you see, you know, how the world works and you have access to information and so on, you know, you have max potential and the productivity of the world, I think will be really pushed

8:06on with deepen potential.

Yeah, definitely, Marcus. And that's some really cool stories there of like actually, you know, when this technology is created and then people come up to you and they're like, "Thank you. You've changed my life." Especially in underserved countries. I feel like AI, you know, you mentioned AI there as well. That is one part that's really

8:26allowing everyone access to information that they can use. But now deepen networks in the same way if you have an a computer or a phone that's you know not being used overnight as well. How can you use that to create value while you're awake and while you sleep? And in any country in the world, if you're in a first world country or if you're in a emerging

8:49developing country and the opportunities are sort of equal is like equaling the barrier to play. So that's really cool. And you know, you mentioned about this truck driver earning hundreds of thousands, which is very cool. I would love to hear more stories like that. I feel like that's a great example of how blockchain technology is helping

9:13everyday people. And I believe that's through the coin app that XYO's the app that's been around for a few years now. Can you talk about the launch of the layer 1 now as you mentioned it was in September. The importance of actually having that layer one blockchain mainet launched and why that's needed for the next steps of growth in deepen and

9:39for XYO.

Yeah. Yeah. as as you know like we are data company in the blockchain space and so we handle data you know since 2018 and since then we are waiting for someone to build a data focused layer 1 or layer 2 blockchain however nobody did you know it's like transactions are happening cheaper if you look compare Bitcoin to Ethereum right it's m multiplier

10:08magnitude cheaper and to Solana to Ethereum, you know, so much cheaper and so on. But it's that's for sending value of tokens, you know, from one blockchain to the other. If you still in the most hyperformant blockchains like Salana and others, if you try to save an image there, for example, it's like extremely expensive, right? And it's it's non-performing. And

10:34the blockchain itself grows and grows with every with every block. Right? because you know you have the whole transaction history of the entire blockchain in that blockchain and it grows and so it's not made for data. However our world moves to data and so we saw in the last years the big success stories in blockchain

10:59were defi and is defi today still a lot of money is made there a lot of value is created and you know RWA rails and a lot of things are going to run run on defi however in some other categories it's sometimes difficult to see you know what was achieved And that is because there's a lack of infrastructure and especially in the data case I think it's because there's

11:27no data layer one and so we tried to avoid to build one over the last seven almost eight years but nobody else did so we said okay we have all these pieces we built for XYO and we're just going to build this data layer one and that's what we did. It's a completely new blockchain. It's not forked from from anything else and we launched it midepptember and

11:55it's for not only for know data storage and things like that and compute but also it's for data analysis and like hyper performance around data immutability around data and so on and we connected so deep network as well. So for example, you can have a point where you have like proof application for example and then you save that proof on the blockchain and

12:23and can use that for something else to train in AI for example and so on and so now we build this open data blockchain basically and other projects will be able to connect into it to build their data heavy applications.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited to see the more partnerships. I know there's more being announced in the works that you can't

12:45talk about yet. You mentioned there about DeFi and now with the layer 1 chain, you should be able to do staking or interacting the token inside of the blockchain directly if it's on its own chain. From what I understand, there is a dual token now. I know the XL1 is the new governance token on the chain as well as XYO which has been around for a long time. And I saw that there is

13:09staking which is a part of DeFi onto the chain. Can you talk about the staking mechanism and does that provide value for the chain and for the users?

Yeah, staking is a is a little bit like deep in right. So you take an asset to earn a return there and so we you can you're right we have dual token system you know the XYO token is for the

13:32DPN ecosystem. the rewards there or contributed rewards. It's governance, security, staking and so on. And then the XL1 token is for gas and transactions, DAPs and so on. And we are you're able to stake the XYO token in the XYO layer 1 network to then earn XL1. And the XL1 gets burned with every transaction on the layer one. And so you have a system where the XYO

14:02token gets tied up through staking and you reduce the circulating supply and secure the network at the same time and then the XL1 token you know gets burned through usage and so it's a it's a mutually strengthening system and it's it's really really awesome I think how these these tokens like validate each other

14:32basically and we have after launch now almost 3% of the XYO tokens are already locked up in staking and that's our total supply and it's going to be more and more and more and more because right now it's very easy to earn excellence curves That means they provide more

15:00rewards at the beginning of the life and then it flattens out and for us flattens out at like 0.7% inflation annually and however now it's a multiple of that. So it's a very good time to stake and earn some XL1 tokens for free and we made it super easy. You go to XYO.network/staking network/staking and you know connect your MetaMask wallet and stake your XYO. That's all

15:28you need to do and that is notless staking where you stake into the system. So you don't need to set anything up on the computer you know don't need to download anything and so on. However there's going to be noted staking as well. We're going to launch in the next month you know for the validator and producer nodes which are running the network right which is the producer

15:52nodes are basically producing blocks and the validator notes validating that the transaction is legitimate and there's going to be a little bit high rewards for those as well but for now you notice taking is very lucrative.

Yeah. No, that's really good to reiterate about, you know, the emission schedule and essentially if you are early in staking when there's not a

16:16lot staked yet, the APYs are are higher and it goes down as everyone's staking, which is also better for the network. The more staking, the more locked up, the more secure the network is as well. And then you know we a lot of people like myself have been in crypto a long time but the note and then there's node staking and it can get technical but it's important to have

16:40nodes and validators to make sure that the network is decentralized and secure as well. So I'm going to take a look. I saw that there's an extensive docs which talks about the X YO layer 1 the network and the dual token system and how the staking works and stuff which I'm going to link that in the description as well because I think it's important to read up on it. You

17:03know there's a lot of technical innovations I saw in the docs on how the why the layer 1 is great and maybe you could touch on without getting too technical. I saw some things that maybe are harder to understand but maybe easy for you since you've been working on it for years about you know having this deep pin data getting it onto the chain it's probably I don't know

17:29how the size of it compares to images or graphics but I feel like as AI and information becomes more valuable it's going to it's going to be a lot of data and you need scalable scalability in the chains as well. I saw there's this technology called step hashes. there's rollups and other like scalability technology that you know there's already 10 million nodes in the

17:53network but I expect eventually since this is a multi-t trillion dollar opportunity that there could be 100 million or more you know how is the network that you've been building for years now just live for a couple months how is that set up with those technologies I mentioned for scalability of like hundreds of millions

yeah so the deepen network we

18:16generate a lot of data right? And that data needs to live some somewhere. So before you know we save the data in IPFS and other places, right? And then put some answers onto like Solana or Ethereum or wherever, right? And that's just very inefficient. But also it doesn't allow us to have a place of truth and those blockchains are are difficult to run. you know, as S

18:46mentioned, for example, there's a lot of bloat in them. So, they grow over time and as they keep growing, it's more difficult to run them. You know, even if you want to run a Ethereum or Solana nodes, you need very very heavy equipment, you know, to be able to do that. And then it's it's and then you need to stake on top of that. and so we built our system in a way

19:11that it's very very easy to stake. First we have the noteless staking, right? Because we got the inspiration from you know our coin app in our path. We wanted to make it as easy and user friendly as as possible so that really anyone can use it. You know, I think I mentioned to you before that in the coin app 80% of the users are non-crypto users and

19:33and but 95% of them turn into into crypto users and so we wanted to take the same approach here for staking where we make it as easy as possible for staking. You don't need to download anything, right? And you can st in the network and so the same is happening. So for the staking when you have the nodes and so on you know it's it's going to be

20:04very light it's because of the network the blockchain architecture is very light. So if you don't have bloat that means

the nodes only grow to a certain structure size and then afterwards you know they don't keep growing anymore or they grow but that basically they delete the bottom. so they don't grow. So you can run it on a regular computer very

20:29easily and maybe in the future you can be able to run them on your phone as well. The notes and so with performance like that and then we built you know all these innovations like proof of perfect for example proof of perfect is a new consensus algorithm which allows you to decide together what data is perfect. So if you look into the real world for example right

20:57sometimes difficult to decide you know what's reality you know if you and I live in the US right if you listen to the right you hear different reality than from the left you know and but both sides think they're right and the proof of perfect tries to solve that you know where you have you try to have that the best reality basically and that is for the

21:25reality but also for chain hats. So when you bring the chain together again right to bring gives you the best answer we use that sort of this proof of perfect algorithm and that makes the data chain autoperformant what you need like for large AI and data applications. And then there's 10 12 other innovations. I don't want to

21:52bore you with them. And it's I think best to read the XYO layer 1 white paper or you know to go on to our git book just read them there we have them one by one we have I think blog posts about every single innovation and it's a easy easy explanation there

yeah no you know it's actually really exciting and that's a hard problem to solve this proof of perfect

22:16trying to find the perfect reality to live in you know I was watching some recent podcasts on AI and how world leaders, you know, will eventually more and more be consulting AI as it gets smarter and then eventually maybe, you know, the AI will be the world leader or the country leader to start. And I'm curious and as AI gets more information,

22:38

would it also tap into, for example, XYO layer 1 network? If you're asking it a question and you're like I need to know about this kind of data lo location or any kind of information [snorts] can would AI be able to tap into the chain and present that information in a readable way.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We have some great conversations there already. Yes. So

23:01it's it can do several things like one of them is like it says I want to know about something right and then it taps into the layer one sees if the data is already there if it's not there right then it can go and request through the deep network

can say go collect that data right I want to get pictures of the clouds in this place let's say in Africa in this

23:26village okay and then it gets pictures of the clouds right from all people who are contributing in the area maybe some pictures of the ground as well and then it can create and then use AI and use and does a farming advice for example for that area which is difficult to come by for those farmers now because that data doesn't exist and or they the farmers don't work

23:51together right maybe one farmer knows the cloud looks this way no today but the guy who lives 100 miles on the road 100 km on the road you has be a different weather pattern and whatever. It's difficult if you don't have the data and then also and then you can take that answer write it on the on the blockchain so you can prove you know that's what the data

24:16what the advice was based on.

Mhm. than the other way around right if yeah I get the feedback that it's hallucinates right then through the DePIN network you can go and find out you know what did this hallucinate about you know what was the underlying data which led to hallucination and then collect and verify new data to provide better details to the AI and I

24:44think that's a big big big big data collection you know for especially underrepresented area is going to come through these deep networks.

Mhm. It's very cool. And you know in terms of more people interacting with earning from contributing to the deep pin networks I know coin app which I can leave in the description is the top application that Xio has been running

25:11for many years. Are there other opportunities of different types of data? Will that be in the coin app or will there be other applications and how else can people contribute just to start testing it out and then earning and then from there you know you really get incentivized to contribute more?

Yeah. Yeah. We have different devices you know we have these Bluetooth devices

25:32NFC devices and so on. You can check them out on our website and buy them there as well. But also you can collect other data and connect other data there like you have a partnership the weather deepen where you know you can prove that data really was generated at this weather station and in this specific location right and

26:00wasn't put into you know my basement you know and there suddenly 10 10 weather stations which spoof data and location and with XYO you're able to do that, right? So, you can connect many sensors to not only the ones I talked about, but especially the opportunities are endless.

That's great. You know, I love that. I think the weather as a is a perfect

26:25example that it's the way that it is right now is so inaccurate that you know, you go onto the website and it's like whatever the weather is at the airport, but I could live an hour from the airport and it's completely different. And there's no way right now, you know, we could easily be contributing this real-time information and earning from it as well. But

26:44even just knowing, you know, more specifically with the with the age of edge devices, mobile devices, and contributing to networks that, you know, we're way behind on that.

You're right. Yeah. Yeah. And you said that right living where you are you know and same for me you know but now imagine you are in a place where they don't have as many weather stations and

27:07you know like suddenly the weather comes from 100 miles away

right it tells it's going to rain tomorrow and you put the seeds on your field but it's not raining you know and then you lost a harvest kind of it and so you know it's hugely impactful I think to be able to collect that data in a in a more reliable and micro place kind of way.

Definitely. You know, I want to look

27:32forward we'll probably our next video will probably be in 2026. You know, the days are getting close to the end of the year here and but I'm pretty optimistic about blockchain as well as deep. You know, they keep saying this is a multi- trillion dollar opportunity and I feel like the interest has been exponentially growing over the last 12 months. you know what

27:54do you anticipate the workload to be heavy I'm sure for 2026 what else is XYO layer 1 going to focus on and where do you see the opportunities arising for different and new types of data to start collecting and more people to interact with deepin next year

yeah so we put out more and more features for XO layer one you know like over the last month of 2025 and

28:19you know and then into 2026 then we're going to on board, you know, our XYO deepen network onto the layer one and connect it all and then, you know, we're going to have third party partners integrating into the layer one. We, for example, we just announced a partnership with company Piggyell, you know, which has 98% market share in South Korea for the charging market. So

28:47it's it's a huge deal and we're going to provide some deepening capabilities to them like a proof of application and some other things and then we're going to take that data and validate put it onto the layer one tokenize it and then that data can be sold you know to AI companies and others in that space.

29:14

Very cool. And yeah, you know, South Korea, I know the Korea blockchain week was just there and they are all about

deepin networks, autonomy, machine economy, robots, and blockchain and trading as well. So, I think that's a great that's a great partnership. I'm looking forward to seeing how that expands. What's the best way for people

29:35to follow along with the updates for layer 1 XYO layer 1 and then how else can people test out contribute to the deep pin network?

Yeah, I think if they not subscribe to your show yet, probably they should subscribe because we have a 8-year partnership here. I think you know like I can cl on your show. So, I think it's a good place to get good in-depth

30:01updates. And then of course our X, our Twitter account and official X YO is a good place, you know, subscribe there and follow along. And then on XYO.network, you know, right there you can sign up for our newsletters and if you have some good ideas how you want to partner with us, send a email to partnerships@xyo.network network and you know maybe there is a

30:28good way for us to collaborate.

That sounds great, Marcus. And yeah, I we're you're definitely coming back soon, but you know, I always love real-time updates as well. I'm going to link the X in there, the XYO.network main site and the coin app for people to check out and any other docs and any other information. Because people need to understand that deepin is

30:54although you guys have been doing it for many years it's right now is the time to be paying attention it's really kicking up and now with AI connecting devices and people and information with blockchain there's no better time than right now to start getting involved and you don't really need the technical expertise even to stake x yo you don't

31:13need to download anything to get an app and on your phone and start contributing and earning for local information or location or any kind of data. It's be becoming more easy than ever and I'm looking forward to seeing how the XYO layer 1 continues to grow. Congrats on the most recent partnership and let's definitely follow up in the near future.

31:35

Sounds great. Thank you. Let's do that.