How Brave is expanding beyond ad blocking with Drew Potter

0:00So, you know, when I first used Brave browser, the reason that I got it is obviously I'm a I'm a crypto advocate, so I'm looking to use crypto and privacy based products. And I think a lot of people, not even in crypto see Brave, and they're like, "Hey, I don't want to see ads." I think that's the thing that got people in. And maybe that's the gatekeeper that

0:23orange pills them or crypto pills them gets them in and sees, hey, this isn't this isn't just a privacy based browser. There's so much more to it. How do you see the growth inside of crypto and then actually out? This is an interesting mix of users, 120 million people.

yeah. So, I mean, first things first, we still block ads and so a lot

0:50of people still use Brave for that. Especially YouTube ads and things like that, right? But yeah, we have grown beyond just a browser and into search and search API and those kind of things. But ultimately I think people I mean that what we're building for is user first experience and for people to have a good experience when they browse or when they search and you know

1:17having that privacy focus for people that you know actually care about their privacy which when we started seemed like it wasn't that many people but that's become a bigger and bigger cohort of people as well. So there's a lot of things a lot of reasons why people use Brave and ads are still one of them. Privacy you name it. As well as you know the crypto features that are

1:40baked into the browser as well. Yeah,

definitely. And I want to dive I want to dive into the crypto features in a little bit here. But I think the big the biggest topic with search browsers is the shift to AI. A lot of people are just like using their LLM to ask questions. Maybe not as much on the traditional search browser. How does that affect Brave in the way that the

2:03company is evolving as more people are shifting to speaking with the LLMs?

so yeah, so even Google is experienced, you know, a downturn in searches, right? And so people are searching in different ways, I guess, through you know, chat GPTs or, you know, those kind of things. But what we have is in brave search we have also ask brave where you can utilize and get

2:31AI answers in search essentially and we're actually one of the first search engines that did the AI summary in the search as well and so we are able to you know integrate that into the search as well but also we have our search API which gets utilized by AI and so the when you're getting AI answers you're a lot of times getting some some answers from Brave as well.

2:58

so it's a shift to like a B2B or like a backdoor model. If I'm asking a question on Claude, the answers could still be actually coming from Brave even though I don't know it.

Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Or potentially. Yes.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Very cool. And there is an is it an AI of your own that's called LEO built into the browser where people are that you're

3:22getting that discussion back and forth and because you know I'm using I've used a lot of the LLMs and Leo hasn't been in the topic in the mainstream in these ones in these chatbt level but how how is that going shifting to that LLM discussion based search results.

So that's a that's a great question actually. We've had tens of millions of people that have interacted with Leo

3:45which is AI within the Brave browser. Also, you know, there's there's but there is, you know, that back end of, you know, the API that powers a lot of this other searches on AI. But yeah, essentially you know one of the other things is the ask brave that I mentioned before that's it's not ne part of Leo but it's in the browser in the search as well like you have an

4:13option to just do a regular search you could do a search where it's ask Leo it gives you kind of that AI summary or AI results that you would find. Yeah,

I feel like there are there might be a balance between having a private browser and then having AI search and at least the centralized LLMs that we see people know that there's very little privacy at

4:38least and at least for yourself you can look back through everything but who knows the company itself can see everything that you said how does that balance as AI you know there are private LLMs but really they haven't gained much adoption compared to these big ones as a private browser. How do you balance that?

That's a great question. It is a

4:58challenge. But what we've done is we've we have an option which is called BYOM or bring your own model. So you can have it locally on your machine. So you can have that option and then also and every time you use Brave or Leo or whatever it is you're using within Brave, I mean it stays on your machine. We're not collecting that information.

5:20and we're not, you know, utilizing that information. But I also get that, you know, these big LLMs need to get information from somewhere, right? So, you have, but what we want to do is build these user first, you know, experiences that people have the option to keep things local if they want to. And sometimes that can be a challenge when it comes to privacy and

5:45security. But also we I've also taken an approach of because you know this is all still relatively new especially when you talk about agents and things like that and what we don't really know yet what people are going to do with these agents on a you know scale you know large scale. So that's kind of one of those things we're kind of waiting maybe to see what happens there and

6:08not jumping in super early on something that's, you know, plays fast and loose with, you know, lack of security or privacy. Yeah,

definitely. I think that the AI agents and the payments part is coming and for the mainstream but right now you know you're having a discussion with an LLM but then if you want to book a flight for 99 90% of people or buy

6:32something you go back to the browser and you do it all manually until we get to this you know AI agent paying on your behalf with stable coins at least something that my parents could do. How is Brave thinking about that and the payment side making sure that's as smooth as possible and hopefully making crypto or stable coins at least the

6:57first method of payment inside of the browser?

Yeah. So, we actually just came out about last week with an announcement of our BAT 4.0 0 roadmap update which actually we're looking at integrating payments

[snorts]

stable coins and all this within and actually you know X42 payments MP stuff like that where agents will be able to utilize these things. Now as

7:25far as making it easy, that's the plan. That might be a longer term goal. Because, I don't think I could get my mom to create an agent to do all this stuff yet, but maybe we get there at some point. But the idea here is we can make it simple enough that your neighbor could use it, you know, those kind of things and have all these options,

7:43both crypto or non-crypto, all within the wallet, all within the browser. And you know, you can do your your AI search and you know, all within the browser and then go to the website and have you know, buy the plane ticket or whatever it is you're buying or eventually we get to the point where the agent does that. And then the other thing is when you're

8:03talking about agents, one of the approaches that we're kind of we're looking at taking is kind of different profiles, right? So let's say you have your airfare tickets and you have an agent for that and then on another profile your finances and another profile maybe some of the medical stuff that you know you don't want all these agents you know having

8:24access to everything which we have seen with some of the other AI and browsers injecting things and things like that and some of the issues that come with that privacy wise security wise so our approach is or we're looking into maybe kind of containing those different things and we did just recently release containers in the browser as well as

8:44we have different profiles and things like that you could use. Yeah,

very interesting. I would love to be able to pay using stable coins or crypto more easily. And I did look at the road map just came out like 10 days ago in how we're evolving the browsers to increase more crypto payments. It would be great to make it as easy as

9:08credit card payments or just the default How can you guys increase crypto adoption with the non-crypto users that you know there's 120 million users? I'm sure most all of them are not in crypto or at least they might be but they don't really make crypto payments that often. How can we increase the velocity of crypto payments through browsers?

Yeah. Well, I think that's where stable

9:30coins really kind of come in or a big part of it because you know with crypto you hold a token and maybe it's going down and you're losing some of that value, right? We've all done that, right? But with stable coins, you know, they're stable and so you have your money on there and it's not going anywhere and you have that option that you can use to pay with that. And

9:51then on top of that, what we're looking at doing is having rewards on top of those things. So, let's say you get a Brave card that comes out maybe, you know, later this year and virtual or physical and you're able to put stable coins on that and potentially depending on where you're at in the world, maybe earn on that stable coins that you're

10:12just holding there. And then when you utilize those, you're getting BAT back in rewards which is another token or our token, basic attention token that you would earn for utilizing that. And then on top of those things, we can look at ways of enticing people to use these things. Just like, you know, you've probably heard a, you know, bank commercial where, hey, you get a $100 if

10:35you open a checking account or something like that. We could look at ways of rewarding people or enticing people to on board and start utilizing these things. Yeah.

Incentivizations always help as long as you don't take advantage of the game, right? You know and when you have a global platform people in different countries with different GDPs you

10:57know depending on how much you can actually earn for example when I've used Brave over the years there's that function that you know you can block ads or you can receive ads we actually get paid for it personally I block them because I'm like it's not worth it for me but for many others it probably is worth it depending on how lucrative that

11:16can be is that enough to get more users for your guys' platform or how can you drive more people and actually get crypto in their hands for the first time? Yeah, I think the current state it is does entice some people you maybe not everybody like yourself right or maybe some of us over here where where it's not enough to make us change

11:43our you know what we do on a daily basis or to opt into seeing ads and things like that. But that's kind of why we have a shift with this new update where we're going to be able to more easily reward people and probably give them more rewards that would be more enticing through this new update on the 4.0 update that we have coming out soon. And that is more of a you know

12:08kind of hey you're rewarded on actions that you're taking too versus you know somebody that's just earning for you know not doing very much or just seeing an ad kind of thing. But those will still be around. will still be doing those things and maybe that will trickle into where that becomes you know more value in there as well and entices more people to join that as well. But

12:29yeah,

definitely when you look at the you know the altcoin space so obviously it's it's an uphill battle and there's that Bitcoin as that gatekeeper. It's hard to, you know, break away from from the market trend, but you can do all you can inside of the application to drive value for the users and function for the token. When it comes to the AI part and

12:51leaning in towards that, how does the BAT token fit into that as as that shift happens?

that's a good question. As of right now, we're still kind of looking into how we can integrate that into some of that stuff. But right now, we're looking looking more at yeah, the payments that people are able to do and generate you know, some of the swaps

13:14and fees that generate some of those things that we can reward people from as well. But of course, I think the main thing that the AI and search and stuff like that does for us is as a company, you know, we're able to earn and grow and then do more on the other side with the with the BAT token, right? And I think that's the main main idea as of right now. What we're what we're

13:38doing and where we're we'll look at ways of course to integrate BAT into everything that we do. It's just a matter of finding how we can make that at scale without you know fraud and all these things that happen in those kind of spaces. Yeah,

definitely. You mentioned there about a physical card. I've always been fascinated by crypto companies that

14:00you know most of it's not phys it's a digital but it's nice to hold something in your hand when you use crypto and you know especially the older generation they're like if they can hold it in their hand they feel like it's real. Is there how do you see that playing out that deployment of having more payments in the browser and outside with the card?

14:20

Yeah. So, I think it's kind of goes back to the whole, you know, basis of Brave is being user first, right? So, you have the option of having a virtual card or a physical card or maybe both, you know, like I'm a little bit old school. I occasionally use my phone to do the payments, you know, but most of the time I'm using my card. I'm getting my wallet

14:40and using my card. So, it really kind of depends on what the user wants and what they want to do. And sometimes it is nice having, you know, a physical card and we actually just came out with a weight list for that. So, we'll be sharing that here in the next day or so here at the conference while we're here actually. And so, if

15:01anybody's interested, you can come check us out. We've got a little table up here if it's raining. If it's not raining, we're out on the on the cabana. But basically we want people to have an option. That's what we build towards is user first. Have an option. You can do what you want to do. Just do it with break.

That's amazing. And beyond that, what do

15:22you think it is the going to be the main driver of more users? You know, how can we go from 120 million to 500 million? Capture a larger percentage of at least the search engine market from the mainstream from the people who don't even know what crypto is. Maybe they're looking for new AI or maybe they're looking for privacy. How can you get new non-crypto users into crypto and into

15:44Brave?

Yeah. I think we're going to keep doing what we do. It's been working. Like you mentioned, we you know last month in June we hitund just under 121 million monthly active users which is up about almost 3.5 million users over May. So we're still continuing to grow and that's in the summer when it's usually a summertime kind of slump, you

16:06know, people are on vacation and things like that. But so we're going to continue, you know, giving people options, making browsing better, you know, by blocking ads and trackers, giving people privacy, you know, respect people that use the browser. Obviously, we have to do our part to make it compatible, make sure websites work, make sure, you know, it's a seamless u,

16:29you know, process. and when they do switch they you want to stay. And actually this last month we had a above average retention rate. So things seem to be going well and we hope to keep continue to grow on that and utilize you know our strengths of you know privacy user first giving people options to do what they want to do.

Amazing. Well I appreciate the efforts

16:50that you and the team have done over the years. I still consider Brave to be my first go-to browser blocking. No one wants to see ads. I don't have time for ads. And that's just one function of the browser. So, thank you guys. Keep up the great work. I'm looking forward to these updates with AI and Brave Pay and all of this stuff. So, thank you

17:10so much for the time. Thank you everybody.

Thank you.

Thank you, Drew and Ashton.