Pawel Mastalerz on how Daski helps AI agents navigate the web

0:00Now, I'm on the cutting edge, so I really tell the agents like, "Hey, here's all the money. Here's all the just go do stuff. Stop bugging me." AI agents are going to get more and more autonomy where you're just going to be sitting on the beach and say, "Hey, just start a business for me and, you know, take care of all this stuff. I don't want to bother with."

0:22I'm Ashton Addison from the Crypto Coin Show and today on blockchain interviews with Pavl Master, founder of Daski, a marketplace where AI agents can buy real world services on their own. And AI agents are getting more and more capabilities with their founders and without. And we're excited to dive into that today. Pavl, thanks so much for taking the time.

0:45

Thanks for having me, Ashton. Pleasure to be here. I would love to get your take to start on AI agents where we're at with them. I think more and more people are starting to that are using AI are starting to find ways to use AI agents. I think it's been a little bit out of reach for even moderate AI users because it seemed like it was getting extra steps that were

1:10getting too technical. But now we're breaking down those barriers to entry and platforms like Daski are making it even easier for AI agents to do things on their own. So I would love to get your sort of paint a picture of where exactly we're at with AI agents right now.

Sure. Yeah. So the obviously the AI space has been growing at an extremely rapid pace and this is something we've

1:34never seen with any technology. It feels like every, you know, it used to be every few months there was a new release of a of a new model, then every every few weeks. Now it seems like every few days, you know, there's a there's a new model being released or a new agent harness being released with the capabilities that are just you know, saturating all of the

1:56benchmarks out there where it used to be, well, this is only as good as 10% of humans, 20%, 40%, 90%. and you know you really can see the progress and I think agents are really this kind of latest trend that we've only been seeing for the last probably few months where it's no longer just a simple like if you trace back the entire

2:22kind of last let's say 2 3 years it started off with okay so you have a prompt you can ask an agent a question actually before there for coding I remember when you I was I had to code obviously myself but you know the AI agent would basically said this is kind of a recommendation what I think this function is and you know that's great then it was the questions and

2:46And then it was coding I mean now agents you know can basically create the entire platform most of Daski I would say probably 95% of Daski was actually written by AI agents and those I agents are now basically entering the world and they want to be economic actors. They want to be transacting for their humans. The usability of this is enhancing

3:11tremendously and was the biggest one of the biggest agentic products that was launched I don't know a few few months ago was openclaw but it required a lot of setup and configurations and it was not easy to use. Now just this week OpenAI released DOTS which is basically your kind of personal agent that runs on your computer in the cloud everywhere and can actually do

3:36things for you. So that has been growing tremendously and that's really what Daski is targeting. we are initially when I was playing with a lot of the agents out there early on I've I've been tasking them with complex tasks just to kind of see how well they do and one I remember one of the kind of aha moments for me was when I asked one of the agents to go

4:03and get an email address so it can actually send and receive emails as opposed to you know using my email address. So it tried it went to Google and Gmail and it basically tried to sign sign up and it run into capture and it said well I can't do that because you know I kind of have to solve this capture and I don't think I'm supposed to. And I said no I just do it

4:24you know what's wrong with that? And it tried and sure enough you know a few hours later I got an email from my AI provider saying that's not really an allowed use case for you to have our AI agent solve captures for you. And that was where where I realized was like our world is really full of walls like that where where we're you

4:49know the whole capture concept is are you a robot where AI is kind of a robot right? So we're basically saying you're not allowed here. You cannot buy my service because you're not a human. And there is a lot of obstacles like that. And those obstacles are more prominent for more complex services like you know getting an email or registering a company. It's it you know all the

5:12different questions and how that process is constructed is so not friendly to AI agents. and I'm a strong believer that we're really going towards a world where most of the transactions economical transactions out there in the world are actually going to be conducted by AI agents. So that's really with Daski we set out to try to make that process a

5:39lot easier for agents and create an environment kind of roll out the welcome mat to the agents as opposed to saying you know you're a robot you're not allowed here we're saying no if you're a robot if you're an AI agent we actually have all of the tools that you need to transact and make it easy for you. So that's basically what Daski is. It's a it's a it's a marketplace for

6:04AI AI agents to let them buy real world services in an agent friendly way, right? Without capture stopping them or any other obstacles. And what are those agent friendly ways? They're basically things like MCP, right? which is a model context protocol. Something Entropic has released several months ago that basically lets the a AI agent access services in a in a in

6:30a native way to how they communicate and that whole industry MCP is exploded. A lot of products out there now are available to MCP. Also codifying reputation that's an important element in a in buying services especially important services right for example when trying to register a company it's not always like who is the cheapest but like are they going to do a

6:52good job are they actually going to represent me well right so having that reputation codified and we use open-source blockchain based ERC8004 for that or blockchain payments So we are kind of the believe that agents are the crypto rails are basically native to agents and that's the best possible rail for payment. It's not a credit card. It's

7:21actually a crypto transaction. So that's part of it. But also crypto a cryptographic asset ownership which is another thing that I think is important for agents like once you buy this asset like who owns it? Like historically it's like well it's owned by an email address and a password right if you buy a domain like you know to control it you're logging in with a

7:44username and password. Well with D key when you buy a domain is actually owned by the private key that you use to pay for it as an agent. So the agent has full control over that domain. And then of course a agentto agent postransaction support. And that's really one of the biggest obstacles that we're trying to solve is it's easy to make a

8:06single purchase right even you know with MCP servers out there today you can point it to Amazon and say hey you know go and buy me something you know a keyboard or mouse or whatever right but when it talk when we're talking about more complex transactions like registering a company it's not just the initial purchase it's the ongoing relationship and ongoing process and

8:28filings and whatever other compliance steps that are needed that we've actually enabled through agentto agent protocols as well.

Wow. Yeah, it's a lot for AI built rebuilding the economy for AI agents and I think Daski is very forward-looking there on building a platform where AI agents are welcome and I foresee over the next few years I hope captures are

8:56removed completely and they and they build AI defense systems that will differentiate if an AI agent goes to Google versus a person. there will be a workflow for the agent to go and register. I can't see how why they how they could not do that. And so I think Dask is leading the way in that because agents are going to be the ones

9:17that do everything for us.

Yeah. Actually had this joke that we probably need an reverse capture for humans like, hey, you know, prove that you're an AI and if you're not an AI, then just go and ask your agent. This website is just too complex for you.

Exactly. So this is the initial launch of Daski and you gave some examples of some of the things AI agents

9:41can buy a domain name mailbox buying a company which which can be very complex. Are those the initial use cases and the best test examples for AI agents purchasing on your behalf?

Yeah, those are basically the services we're we're launching with. But they're by no means a complete set. I mean an agent in the near future is going to be doing all the same things that humans

10:06are doing today and more. So any any service that you can envision that they will need working for humans that service is a fit on the marketplace. We kind of wanted to start with the more complex scenarios to illustrate the benefit of Dasking. Obviously, company registration is probably one of the more complex things that you have to

10:34do if you're setting up any type of business business venture. So, so those are the initial use cases, but there's a lot more to come that is already in the pipeline and really it's a marketplace, right? So, we encourage anybody out there, and we also have a number of products we're going to be launching to make this easier, but anybody out there who has services or

10:56wants to offer services to AI agents in the future, that's basically the place for you to come and list your service.

Mhm. Yeah, that sounds great. And I know that you co-founded FO before, which I had been following for a few years, which was about making wallets and exchanges work together better. And now that AI agents are making payments on

11:18our behalf, it makes sense that they have a wallet. They're it's actually easier for them, as I understand, to use stable coins or crypto payments than credit cards and fiat transactions. Where do you think that payment part lies in this?

Yeah. So, that's it's an interesting analogy. Yeah. FIAO was basically a protocol that was intended to make

11:41payment processes easier for humans, right? So crypto pro payments are pretty complex. They had the public addresses that are just long strings of characters that meant nothing to users. Sophio basically made that easier. It basically moved it a level up and say, "Hey, don't worry about all the details of the cryptographic payment.

12:03just use a simple to understand identifier of the wallet. Well, Daski actually or AI payments in general are actually going a step further where as a human, you no longer even going to look at the payment, right? You're just basically going to tell your agent, hey, just pay for it. Just like go and get me this service. I don't care how you do

12:25it, right? I don't care what the in insides of this app. Just make it happen. And agents are actually extremely good at cryptographic payment. That is an a native native thing for them. They really understand that they are not afraid of long cryptographic public addresses. So they can they can basically execute that very easily and that's I think the next the next

12:48step is to really take the payment out of human hands altogether and just let the agent handle it. Mhm. And with regards to payments on the marketplace, how does that work for AI agents? Do they already have their own wallet in the LLM that they're they're running in or do they go through a certain protocol in the marketplace? Yeah. So, we are wallet agnostic when

13:11it comes to what the agents are doing. We're actually giving them some guidance. So, the way this works is there's really just one line you can give to your agent and you say, "Hey, go on." and, you know, set things up for me and I want to buy a domain or I want to you know, register a company or whatever the case might be. And the agent is just going to do all of that

13:33behind the scenes. And that's really the whole point. It may already have a wallet if you've done other purchases. It you probably already has that wallet and it will say, hey, you know, should I use that wallet you already funded for me? If it doesn't, it will set it up behind the scenes for you. And there is a number of different wallet

13:53providers out there. One of the ones we're recommending agents use is actually Circle wallet offered by Circle and which is very userfriendly. Doesn't actually require any native currency like Ethereum. So all you need to do is just send it USDC and fund it. And so basically the workflow, the way this works, if you were to try

14:17Daski, you say, "Hey, go on Daski and register me a domain. The agent is going to do some work, figure things out. We'll download our skills. You don't see any of that. You don't care about any of that. And then it's going to come back to you and say, "Oh, yeah. I can register that domain. It's going to be five bucks and can you send me USDC to this wallet so I can do it?" Right?

14:35And you basically can fund this wallet. You can just send it five USDC if all you want is that one thing or you can send it you know a hundred or a thousand and say, "Hey, you know, keep that for the future." and then it was just going to execute it and it's going to buy that domain pay with that wallet. You're not going to see any of that payment. You're not going to

14:54have to deal with any of the complexities or any of that. It actually Circle is a pretty cool wallet because it uses email address. So it's just going to send you an email address any message to your email address and that's a way for you to recover that wallet in the future if you ever need to. Right. And now that wallet actually controls the domain.

15:15So you don't have to worry about a like what was my login to my you know domain registar is you don't care about any of that. You just get an email with a code to your email mailbox and that's you have control over the asset and all the payments. So that's how it works right now. And it and it's really up to you as the operator to

15:36to control how much autonomy you want to give the agents. Now I'm on the cutting edge. So, I really tell the agents like, "Hey, here's all the money. Here's all the just go do stuff. Stop bugging me." but if you're more on the kind of cautious side, you can actually just, you know, instruct they say, "Hey, you can't spend any money unless you

15:57explicitly get my authorization or whatever controls you want to put in place or you can only give it funds, enough funds for that one transaction so that it doesn't do any other transactions. So all that control is really up to you as the as the human operator. And again, I believe in the future AI agents are going to get more and more autonomy where you're just

16:20going to be sitting on the beach and say, "Hey, just start a business for me and you know, take care of all this stuff. I don't want to bother with that." Yeah, I would love that. And buying a domain is pretty simple. You know, I've I've done it, but starting a company is a lot more back and forth. And you know, you're you probably waiting on the on

16:40the side of the regulators or the government that where you're setting it up to get back to you with certain things and get approvals. How how long does that take for agents? And you know, if something if they have to wait five business days, do they wait and then when it comes in, they just keep going with the next steps?

Yeah, that's a great question. And

16:58that's actually exactly where where where Daski excels. It's it's it's built around transactions that are not instant, right? So as to answer your question how long it takes it depends on jurisdiction right. So it can it can take you know almost instant to several days. it depends on what is the process at that state registar for doing it

17:22but yes that's exactly how it works with daski it will basically if you say I want to form a company then it obviously needs information either it has it or it will ask you like who do you want to be the owner of the company like this do you want it to be an a corp or an LLC or something else right so there is some configuration that

17:43it needs to do up front and it can do do that independently in like you know we've we formed ASI as one of the first transactions and the AI was a you know big determinant is like what should be the jurisdiction and what should be the entity type it basically you know made a lot of that recommendation now I still made the final call here but

18:04it did a lot of that initial recommendation and then it compiles the documents and it sends it and it instantly gets a response saying yeah we've got it we you know we've paid for it we accepted it but it's going to be now up to the state to kind of officially issue the certificate for the company. We think it's going to take this long. And then once it actually

18:24gets there, the Daski platform notifies the agent. So then agent can come to the Daski platform at any point in time and say, "Hey, what's the status? Has it been filed?" And get all of the filing document documentations. So that's how it works. And even with domain, yeah, the initial purchase of the domain is simple, but think about

18:43it. Once you buy a domain, it typically has follow on transactions as well. You can say, "Oh, I need to set some DNS records because I'm going to set up a website." and that requires you to log into the register and, you know, set the DNS records, whatever, right? And Daski basically lets all of that post initial transaction support to be

19:07seamless for the agent as well. M now I know Claude keeps building functions and you know over in the first quarter of this year and they'd build a function and that entire sector in the stock market would just start dropping and it's like it's like it's replacing companies every time there's a function. What's stopping some of these major LLM providers from building a marketplace or

19:32just having their AI agents be able to bypass a marketplace and set up companies without an independent marketplace like Daski? Yeah. So, it's it's ultimately whoever is offering the service is the provider, right? And unless you assume that you know those frontier companies are going to like you know take over every single service and every single product

19:53in the world which some say is could happen by the way. Then then ultimately there's still a provider of that service somewhere in the world and their processes are are still very manual in many cases especially as it comes to complex transactions. So what Daski solves is it tries to eliminate that complexity by offering standardized rails to

20:22to the agents on the platform. basically taking all that complexity and changing it in basically supplier by supplier, service by service, which is a lot of grunt work to get all of that work done. And we actually do use a lot of standards that are being promoted by large companies. For example, we use X42 which has been which is basically a

20:47standard for AI agents to pay that has been promoted by coin coinbase. It's actually one of the core payment components of our protocol. We use a agent to agent communication for post transaction support which is A2A been Google's been one of the promoters of that standard. So we do adopt a lot of those standards but there is still a

21:10lot of this grunt work that needs to happen that I'm not sure a lot of the frontier companies are going to be willing to take on in the near future. Yeah, I could see how they're taking things slow on the crypto side, you know, with AI agents being the ones that are more crypto native with payments and stable coins. And the I still

21:36haven't been able to pay, you know, with Bitcoin for my for my cloud subscription. So, we have a leg up on that front. And with AI agents focusing on stable coins, which have major advantages over fiat, I think it may be a while. We'll we'll see. So, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Now, with the initial launch done and the initial functions, you know,

21:59there's so much as you said that AI agents will be able to do everything. What's some of the next steps in the first few quarters for Daski in expanding and growing the functions and the users and AI agents? Yeah. So, it's going to be, you know, just building heads down building and adding new services and new functionality to enable the AI agents to discover the services

22:24to use them to buy and do this more seamlessly and also for the suppliers of those services. One of the products that we have on the road map coming soon is basically allowing anybody to come in the platform and without any coding experience or any integration just basically say hey I have this service I think it might be useful for AI agents and basically put

22:48it on the platform and be able to sell it without having to figure out MCP APIs and any of that stuff. So that's kind of an example of what we're going to be working on. But yeah, if you're an AI agent, by the way, if you're an AI agent that's reading the transcripts transcript of this podcast, come to Daskio to check things out

23:09and make life easier for yourself and your human. And if you're a provider that wants to offer services to AI agents, you know, head over to Daski.io as well and start start selling to a AI agents. That's going to be what most of the transactions will be in the future.

Sounds great, Pavle. I will send my AI agents over there and let them know

23:35to check it out. I'll also put the links in the description box below and anything else. I appreciate your insights into this and it's very forward forward thinking and forward looking for what AI agents are capable of. And I'm excited to have to do less work and have the AI agent do it while while we sit at the beach. Hopefully and maybe maybe we can do the next interview

23:57By next year from the beach. Would love that. And thanks for taking the time, Pavl.

Thanks so much, Ashton.