Alex Shkor on blockchain interoperability architecture

0:01I'm Ashton Addison from blockwest capital for investment pitch media and today on the Crypto Coin Show we have Alex Shore CEO and co-founder of collective intelligence Labs Alex welcome to the show and great to see you again thank you Ashton good to see you too and always pleasure to talk to you likewise A lot's happened since we last spoke the web 3 Industry continues to grow

0:26D5 continues to explode and we're looking for more more options to bring that to the mainstream and bring a more interoperable and holistic ecosystem within defy and I from what I understand collective intelligence Labs is really helping with this the Futures multi-chain and being able to connect the different isolated silos of defy together I think it's going to take the

0:49next step towards mainstream adoption of blockchain technology so I'm super excited for our discussion let's just kick it off right from the top level on what you and your team have been building at collective intelligence labs and how that relates to the multi-chain Future and then we'll dive into all the details yeah thank you eston so yeah indeed

1:11multichain is the future and we've been thinking about this a lot so we all want our apps to be deployed on multi-chain we don't want it just exist in one ecosystem and it's not yet the case we need either to deploy it in multiple ecosystems interconnect and this interconnectivity is quite limited so a lot of companies working how to achieve this multi-chain and we've been thinking

1:35about this as well and basically we were able to come up with a like we call it complete industry architecture because basically it allows to unite all the players and you deploy your D app just once you deploy it on the whole web3 and underline logic balance it can redeploy it into different blockchains so you like as a developer as the user experience you just like mean to your

2:00nft in web3 you mean you create your dial in web3 and you don't even know where it's been executed so it's like ultimate user experience we want for web3 and yeah that's that's pretty much it yeah no that's a dream come true because I know there's a lot of isolated silos and it's hard to transfer assets between blockchains and from what I understand there's still a lot of hacks

2:29and exploits through the bridge technology that people are using to try and move assets through never mind the compatibility of the decentralized applications themselves from what I understand you have to relaunch on different platforms and it's sort of hard to connect them all together why do you think this hasn't been done sooner it because because D5 has been growing

2:49since you know mainly since 2020 we have a few years now under our belt yet we still see a lot of fragmentation throughout the ecosystem yeah that's right so basically all the bridges all the current Technologies are still just hot fixed it's not a complete multi-chain it's not a complete interconnectivity because we still need to move these assets from one to another

3:17so your asset is exist on one chain or another chain you know like NFTA is actually on one chain or another chain but what we want to achieve and like what we architecture we come up with basically your asset exists on blockchain Sim Infinity called blockchain simultaneously and the question of data consistency is resolved through next two layers through

3:42relay layer and core layer and maybe I should highlight a little bit about the whole layered architecture so basically it's important to understand that in complete Webster architecture we have there's like five layers application aggregation execution relayer and core layer and this is like a callistic overview holistic infrastructure necessary

4:10to deploy your DF deploy any smart contract on all blockchains simultaneously okay yeah no I know it gets complex and thank you for explaining those five layers how long has your team sort of been working on this and where exactly is it at right now yeah to be honest we've been working on this for already like a couple of years so we had this idea

4:37about how to interconnect multiple blockchains like at least multiple blockchains we were thinking about this a lot and we first came up with multi-relay architecture is when one blockchain can be connected to multiple release which is not the case even now so like for example to polka dot and kutsama simultaneously and we came up with this and it already was quite a

5:01breakthrough for us like it happened maybe in a little bit about two years ago but possible to like unite all the networks because even if you connect multiple blockchains into one relay they're still incentive to create different ecosystem different like segregated environments and ahama moment was when we yeah when we started to

5:32question where if there is even a need of a token of a central token in this whole architecture and I came up with a conclusion that there is no need for a central token because there is a needful institution to govern the whole infrastructure but there's no need for a central token and this is this only this Innovation only this like inside are allowed to unite all the

5:56players all the ecosystem into one single Network okay good to know and when you're looking at making that compatibility with other blockchains for example polka dot and kusama or with ethereum do you actually have to work with the layer 1 protocols and they have to implement some kind of technology to that is compatible with collective intelligence

6:19Labs or is it sort of a decentralized nature and you're able to do it you know without their you know permission list so to say yeah so we will be able to deploy our Primitives to ethereum and it will become a compatible with three architecture so and there will be two simultaneous protests so we do deploy these Primitives but the whole socialization of these Primitives so

6:47like what is the actual primitive which is a standard for the whole web stream and that's why we also creating a dial a council which will be applying to standards which will include players from different industry participants and influencers Technologies who will decide what is actually standard what's the standard for data format what's the standard for nft what is standard for

7:09priority and this is like this is like is necessary step to unite all the networks because we only can unite them when we have like some standardized the pipeline of Technologies definitely and are you focused on the development and launching of the decentralized applications primarily and then moving that into digital assets and crypto coins and nfts and

7:38things like that or are you focused on all at once or is there a priority in which to make cross-compatible first yeah we have our own roadmaps so right now we just focused on building first infrastructure prototype which will allow you to meet nfts on multiple networks simultaneously so basically this is like will be the first prototype you mean 10ft and you don't

8:03even know where it's minted because you don't care like where where the buyer is buying there it's maintenance there so this is like will be the first prototype of cils multi-chain and then we will integrate more and more capabilities with dial allowing you to create this joist organizations and like and eventually allowing you to create any kind of applications on top of this

8:31multi-chained out of this web 3 meta protocol okay and how do you measure the security of you know the you know if you're looking at minting on ethereum sort of looking at you know the market cap and the consensus of validating transactions on ethereum same for polka dot if you're minting through collective intelligence Labs trying to go to multiple

8:55blockchains you know what's the underlying security protocol that sort of governs that minting and security process yeah this is actually a very good question because like in this like Webster architecture we have users even do not directly interact with blockchain they always interact with blockchains through aggregation layer so when you send an operation a transaction to meet

9:19nft it's first landed in aggregation layer an aggregation layer is connected to multiple blockchains and there is a decentralized rotor and rotor knows which is the most optimal blockchain to execute exactly your operation so because like for some operations it might be cheap on one for someone it might be cheaper than another one and it also knows what data is necessary for

9:43execution and it knows for example that this blockchain does have this data and this does not have this data and if some blockchain doesn't have not have all the data it will cause interchange communication which is more expensive comparing without it so this is like the job of this router to estimate the most optimal way of execution and the rotor operator who owns this road through

10:07making money on a difference from estimation and actual execution costs okay so there would still be you know say it shows the polka dot ecosystem for minting it would still be the underlying security and like transaction cost would be the same you know obviously the ease of use and interoperability would be great but like the cost of minting nft chosen through

10:35the polkadot ecosystem it would be the same cost if you went directly there and tried the longer harder route to Mint it is that right yeah yeah that's right it in the first yes but in once this particle is launched and implemented the cost of operating on verse 3 will be dramatically decreased because this thing will create a competition between

10:56all the blockchains for the cost effective execution which is not the case right now because when you're locked in the ecosystem like you locked and like if even price is high like it's ethereum you're still locked in the system you have to upgrade there but when there is like images there's like millions of transactions going through decentralized router and it's finding a

11:16most optimal way for execution so now every blockchain is instant serialized to create really fast execution of this and efficient and cheap execution of these transactions this is like what we believe will lead to dramatic dramatic drop of cost execution on in the whole web stream and talking about security you actually getting a combined security

11:40of all these networks because even if ethereum fails fully like fully disappear do you think will still be operating because it has this data in like different blockchains which is on the blockchains which we don't even know yet like not yet created because once the ecosystem becomes healthy and there's healthy competition and people know what they can put on there will be

12:06many more businesses and entrepreneurs and technologists come into the industry to create really better infrastructure and really compete for this operation with these transactions wow that's incredible let's hope ethereum doesn't disappear overnight like that but it's great to have those Fail-Safe mechanisms in there Alex and yeah you know I was speaking to some other

12:29companies recently about you know just the growth in layer one and Layer Two networks and he was mentioning that they had partnered with over 40 layer one networks and I feel like the amount of layer one networks is getting ridiculous and how hopefully there's some kind of saturation point where there's not 200 different blockchains but with that said

12:50with your team's technology are you do you focus on you know a specific three or four layer ones to start and you know make sure you work out the fine details of it and perfect that or you know where is the starting point for all of this interoperability for your team's Focus yeah so we have a strategy so we can

13:20Implement these Primitives in different blockchains and this will already make them compatible with this Factory metaphorical but obviously we think that it makes sense to First focus on evm implementation because we can do it once and deploy multiple chains and also probably a vasam or Cosmos or substrate based implementation we're still deciding about this second priority

13:46but yeah there is like advantages and disadvantages but once this protocol is implemented and it becomes a standard all the blockchains will be incentivized to implemented themselves so yeah and I will not worry about having like 40 or like even thousand player ones because like I'm sure there will be like maybe thousand people and we do not call

14:09similar once we call them execution layer chains because our architecture execution layer and it's actually more correct name because like L1 doesn't give you like a functional information about what it actually does in the whole system but yeah so once you as a user you're not exposed to layer one yeah once you're not exposed to execution layer chain you

14:35don't care how many of them because like now when you're exposed you need to handle all this like like interoperability you need to transfer from that one to that one it's headphones there are wallet there like it becomes crazy but yeah it's it's just like we are now talking with you and we don't know whether our data is processed by Netherlands data server or like

14:54rarely we yeah why should we know you know and the same should be number three yeah it's a great analogy and with 2023 the Market's already turning around it's looking great D5 is looking strong as it continues to grow this narrative for interoperability security and privacy I feel like we'll only continue as well so I feel like it's a good time for you and

15:16your team to continue growing what are some of the major initiatives that you're looking to get out next throughout 2023 on the roadmap yeah so one of the amazing initiatives right now for us is launching those three architecture design sessions because we realized that this whole like Webster Street protocol is so big and it was so many like participants that we should be the

15:43collective effort of Designing it and we inviting top experts in the world to help with detailization of this protocol because we'll have higher level architecture now we need a specification for every layer for every layer node for every layer cluster and once we have it will lead to implementation of the specification into different verticals

16:06and creation of new businesses so this architecture design session will be held every month and will be basically a vehicle for implementation of this matter protocol and we as a company of course we will be doing our own businesses like on an execution layer on the application layer on a aggregation layer because we also want to first of all build businesses within this

16:33ecosystem within this meta protocol but also we want to launch a council we want to launch this Dao and we'll rate the launch in it which will be a steering this ecosystems steering electrical system and this dial is been already launched it's Collective notice console and it now has 19 members and we will be on boarding more and more and more members there so we want to reach

17:02like also like what be more inclusive and this is like also one of important goals for us to grow the console to grow the dial well looking forward to it and I can leave the links for that in the description box as well is there another place that the viewers can follow along and to learn more about the architecture layers and follow along

17:26with these updates that you're talking about sure I think like it's the best places to subscribe to our Twitter and telegram we just started it recently and we will continue publishing information serum or just follow me on Twitter sounds great Alex I can leave the collective intelligence Labs platform and the Twitter in the description box below and your Twitter as well

17:51pleasure speaking with you this is a great initiative that I think is accept in the right direction towards a more multi-chain and a easy to use ecosystem for blockchain which hopefully can bring more of the masses into web 3 and lower those barriers to entry so thank you so much for the work that you're doing Alex all the best on collective intelligence Labs moving

18:11forward and let's follow up in the near future sounds good and thank you for your time thank you for this opportunity would love to talk to you next time