Units Network launches trustless interoperability across EVM chains

0:01I'm Ashen Addison from the cryptocoin show today on blockchain interviews we have back with us Sasha Ivanov the founder of waves and of units network uh Sasha welcome back to the show and thank you so much for taking the time uh thank you very much for having me as I'm excited to dive into to to waves once again it's it's such an OG uh blockchain and there's so much that's

0:26evolving in the industry um that you've now birthed units Network which we can dive into specifically today um I would love for you to just give a high level overview of of your work at waves and and how that led to needing to start units Network as well yeah I actually I was on your show I think a couple of years ago maybe even three years ago and so many things

0:49happened since actually you know so both good or B and bad actually so uh probably you guys remember way it's like um OG chain from 2016 uh but we're still here we still moving forward we've had some issues uh when FTX situation happened also Luna situation impacted us not in a good way because we had a similar stable

1:18coin uh and it crashed as well not so spectacular as Luna did but it also actually was pretty bad so uh we're still struggling with those but now we're like uh resolving them and we're moving forward we're launching uh some kind of like extension to waves and what it is actually so waste is a nonm chain and it has always been a problem for us and now we are launching

1:48like an ecosystem of evm chains and how is it going to work actually so we have waves as layer one and those layer twos are connected and it's pretty different from traditional setups and I think this is like the next step in blockchain scalability because in my opinion uh this is some kind of like end game in this like L2 narrative and in blockchain

2:15scalability as uh we see it now so basically you have a very robust like layer one and you build different chains on top of it and you connect those chains because this like layer one which becomes some sort of like beon chain and maybe even a layer zero chain because it connect all those chains I think this is the direction where ethereum is going

2:43but for them it's quite hard to move fast but we can do that so what we want to do we want to like build one ecosystem on top of waves uh with uh the same economic incentives both like in wave chain and in the oil toos this is like weaking this is a very popular narrative in eum now and we just want to like implement this in ways and build an EOS system of interconnected chains

3:11properly decentralized and they're not even l2s they become like proper l1's because you have like several dozens validators supporting each chain and uh that layer one uh which connects them becomes uh some kind of like layer zero because it just connect those chains in a trustless way they become fully interoperable and this I think uh the

3:39end game for blockchain scalability and we just want to implement it first actually so this is what we are doing now and waves is not been like phased out no it's like moving forward and what we built is some kind of extension to waves uh and if you want to probably understand what it could look like it's probably something like paa uh because you don't need to run

4:04your own validators you can just launch your own chain fast PA is a bit too sophisticated in my opinion we want to simplify the process you just need to make like d governance proposal and your chain is launched like in a few days so our goal in terms of like usability to enable a very simple process of launching your own chains that this is like it's maybe somewhat similar to

4:29Cosmos as well but in Cosmos you usually need to run your own validators in units you won't have to do that you just uh like can tap into the existing community of validators and it's very easy to launch your own chain it's an evm chain connected to all other chains fully interoperable there's also like external Bridges so we want to make this process

4:53of getting your own block space very simple and accessible for everyone mhm wow very interesting a lot to unpack there so I I see sort of two comparisons um there's the cosmos ecosystem as you said you can sort of create your own chain independently make it easy but also layer twos uh I think most people understand you know etherium and there's some layer twos on top and

5:18as you mentioned it doesn't mean mean that the layer one becomes uh obsolete it actually helps enhance it as well so could you give maybe more of a comparison on how does this differ um from a layer two on ethereum helping ethereum layer one to how units actually helps improves the waves ecosystem exactly so so basically what happens in etherum now uh basically have

5:45like this jointed layer twos which somehow connect to ethereum like to ethereum layer one in different ways you have like different approaches zero knowledge proofs you have uh optimistic consensus different approaches and the whole e system is quite disjointed actually so because usually have Bridges between e and those L to which are not even trustless you know so

6:12and I think this is a problem and it will be result in eum and in my opinion uh what will happen in ethereum is like uh some kind of like return on that sharding idea that vitalic initially had and those l2s will become shard of uh ethereum basically so they all will be united into one ecosystem so this is to where ethereum is going in my

6:39opinion and looks like uh this is actually what they have in mind and this is very logical you know for ethereum because they have sharding this is some kind of like Rebirth of the sharding idea and they have a lot of HTS and those HTO are not properly decentralized decentralized this is another problem because usually you have just one Ser one sequencer that supports

7:06uh like a given L2 chain and if it goes down actually the network goes down as well you can take your liquidity back so probably you won't lose funds but it takes time and there is a problem of centralization so they will have to resolve it and there is a problem of like all all those twos being like this jointed and somewhat disconnected from here so they will have to bring it into

7:35one EOS system based on probably RIS taking of ethereum for example probably you know I layer project which is really big now and this is what they're doing basically so we just want to take this a bit further maybe move a bit faster uh because we can you know so we uh we can move fast because we are not so big so like it allows us to be like a bit more

8:01flexible uh so this is what we're going to do so we want to uh like take this Narrative of L2 chains uh like to it's like logical conclusion uh where you have all those l2s interconnected through the basis layer there is like uh one token uh one tokenomics and based on risk taking on

8:28that token you can actually uh achieve consensus in those l2s and those l2s stop being L2 actually they become a once because you have a proper consensus they're properly decentralized and the basis layer uh the basis layer One turns into like layer zero because it connects all those chain uh in my opinion this is like where uh blockchain

8:57research is moving towards you know so and we just want to to do it faster maybe than some other projects but similar projects are happening now I layer restating all those narratives will probably uh become like combined into what we're doing now in ethereum but we just want to be the first that very interesting and will units

9:27allow uh a reaking of waves or what are the possibilities with liquid reaking tokens yeah very good question uh so basically yes it's going to be based on W taking uh and also we have already implemented external Bridges which uh actually have a different type of risk taking RIS taking of like external liquidity which is not new actually but it's quite important when uh you can

9:58restake your eum uh and can also use like rep token but your ethereum actually uh brings you some profit as well because uh it's like re it's being restake under the hood and you can basically get the native uh interest native apy on ethereum chain so I think it's quite important to have it implemented as a product for all the

10:26chains in the ecosystem and we have already implemented it and also we uh offer raking of stable coins and any volatile assets and taking of stable coins is not new of course and so really lucrative because you have a very high apy currently like 5% on your stable coins is quite a lot uh and you can also use them in other def protocols uh but

10:55we can also offer raking of any volatile assets actually is uh there is this mechanism of like cross chain swaps which rebalances the liquidity between the different chains and it's actually interest bearing so potentially you can take any token uh in our bridges I don't know BNB whatever and get like maybe three to 5% apy and you can also use uh those tokens in different defi protocols

11:26so basically you can get just like double profits from this so this feature is unique and I think it can be um it can be our like killer feature of our bridges uh for external liquidity because nobody has uh RIS taking of any assets it's usually ethereum whiches through Lia for example or other native uh taking protocols and stable coins

11:57which are usually restake through d but we want to offer also isaking any volatile wow that's incredible yeah I haven't seen much on staking stable coins or raking them um to have derivatives but that only makes sense um and would there be an issue if you're able to restake any token whether it's smaller there might be some limitations

12:25on brand new coins but sort of expanding Beyond ethereum yeah they should be liquid yeah they should be liquid so probably we can restake I know top top 200 coins in market cap yeah so there there has to be some liquidity of course uh but if there is some liquidity yes basically there is this mechanism when you rebalance uh that c between uh chains uh and it's something like like

12:54cross chain curve uh and because you have swaps you have fees for swaps and those fees can be like channeled to liquidity sters actually so that's how we get apy uh from those tools and what's the current status of of units network is that available or what's sort of the road map and the timeline for every yes yeah good

13:22question actually so now uh uh the product itself is almost ready uh it's on the test na uh and now we have to do some marketing actually so now we're running H we're gonna run A tes campaign and also tvl campaign with uh retro drop so we're not going to invent the wheel here I think retro drops are great and they uh actually bring a lot of new people uh they really uh like

13:53boost to the community so this is what we're going to do and it's going to be done inp Tes campaign uh uh and a bit later campaign where can take liquidity and get unit zero token uh when the network uh uh is launched so unit zero is uh the native token of the first chain in the ecosystem and there's going to be many chains

14:19hopefully but I think yeah there will be a lot of chains but Union Zer also serves as a governance token of uh the ecosystem do so it's just it's not only the native token of the first chain it's also a governance token of the whole e system MH that's great so people will be able to start contributing uh or earning some incentivization in in the test net very

14:48soon yeah yeah exactly so uh in this regard we're not GNA be very original uh because this approach has worked for a lot of projects and I think is going to work out for us as well I was just speaking to excuse me I was just speaking to a company who was working on reaking uh on the cosmos ecosystem and they they were struggling with uh adoption because of I think the

15:17complexity of Cosmos or just not as popular as ethereum uh reaking uh there's still a large percentage of people that aren't reaking or don't understand the benefits of it yet um although I feel like we're at a turning point where a lot of people are going to be getting involved um what do you think units can do to communicate the the benefits or lower the barriers

15:41to entry to get more people involved that haven't started reaking at all yet yeah Co Cosmos is also an OG system you know and probably it's hard uh uh to adjust the current trends you know for Eos like Cosmos although Cosmos is very successful uh and actually I think that in our uh approach is going to be easier

16:11than Cosmos due to many reasons for example one of them uh we have as like we have pure ethereum in our l2s clal ones so it's not some kind of like modified ethereum it's pure ethereum so usually you have some modify uh ethereum in l2s because you have some like zero knowledge approaches which require

16:37different uh logic um and um it's like it makes things a bit more complicated we uh actually want to uh import ethereum exactly as it is and uh it's like pure evm although waves is not nonm but here we have like pure evm and Cosmos has also issues with like evm you know so

17:05they do have evm but it's like it has been built later so yes there is some like legal Legacy issues as well and we want to simplify the process we want to like make the uh con butor is taken Complete because this taken will be offered not only for stable coins and ethereum but for any assets so it's like it makes this concept very uh like understandable

17:33you know basically you can take any liquid tokens and basically if you keep if you hold those to in uh like in the bridge uh you basically can use the W uh fence but you still can get some interest some apy from just like keeping them uh in the bridge you know so I think it's a very simple idea uh and

18:03people will understand it better when they can restake any token not only stable coins and ethereum but any token at all and this is what we're going to do no I I agree I'm looking forward to to that be able to to to restake anything and be able to have liquidity on it um what what's the best way for people to follow along with the campaign so that they can start testing it out

18:32and and get the incentivization right when it comes out I I think you should appt to bookmark our website which is units. network uh there's like social networks there there's Explorer uh and everything you need to actually start participating in the testing Campaign which is coming I think either the next week or uh the week after

19:00uh yeah so we're like we been flexible we like want to understand which would be what would be the best time to launch based on like Market sentiment uh but uh the ETA for launch uh for main at launch is like July August this year so you still have time to participate because Tes and campaign hasn't started yet so uh but you can start like making some transactions we

19:29have a pretty big Community now that just like uses some protocols on the test net for example uh swap protocols uh they issue nfts they do some transactions and all those activities will be like accounted for when we start uh like start a proper testment campaign uh with like questing platform with points you know with everything that

19:57other projects are successfully doing now and all those activities that users are carrying out currently will be like uh Incorporated and uh like retroactively basically yeah so people are making some swaps now and they will get uh rewards for that and early birds usually are rewarded more so the sooner you start participating uh

20:27probably the more you zero frequency will get eventually MH that's great to hear and I'm going to play with it a little bit more myself um I've been hearing a lot about reaking in all different types of cryptocurrencies recently so I feel like this is a product that uh could do very well uh I'm looking forward to seeing it launched in the main net but test net

20:49first I'm going to leave the link to units. network in the show notes which it's pretty simple it's just units. network uh and the socials I can leave a direct link there as well um I'm excited for for this to come out and and wishing your team all the best in expanding uh the ecosystem of waves and and bringing reaking more to the masses so thank you

21:09so much Sasha for for taking the time thank you Ashton thank you thank you thank you for having me thank you it was a pleasure bye